titolo

nie mui

BRENNAN: Well, we will make my remarks available on the CIA website, which is www.cia.gov, later on today. And I do say in there that a lot of these governments and regimes have opted for authoritarian measures at the expense of democratic principles and human rights. And I do think that there-unfortunately, some of these governments feel as though they are being overwhelmed by the security challenge they face, and they will resort then back to some of the traditional measures of suppressing these challenges with authoritarian measures.

We also, though, I think have to recognize that Western-style democracy, which has taken, you know, several hundred years to really take root-and it's continuing to be a journey for us-that it's not a light switch that can be just flipped in these Middle Eastern countries and Arab states. Going from very traditional societies and-with having the trappings of modernization in some of these cities, they're still socially, culturally, politically very unfamiliar with the practices and democratic principles that we hold so dear. So I think we have to be understanding that this is going to take some time.

At the same time, we, the U.S. government, and we, CIA, are very, very clear in terms of the types of behaviors and actions that we will not tolerate if-that type of suppression and abuse of human rights. We, CIA, have not only threatened to cut off relations with some of those liaison partners that we have information that they practice; we have cut off relations. So I think we need to keep the pressure on them. But also, we have to make sure that this-the navigation of the shoals that stand between these governments today and a thriving democracy are significant. And I think we have to help them navigate it.

One of the real concerns I have is that the economic challenges that these countries face are overwhelming. When I think about the suffering that's taking place in Yemen-and it's still in the midst of, you know, active fighting-the reconstruction that is going to be required to put that country back together, and Syria, and Iraq, and Libya, and the economic reform that has to take place in some of the countries of the region that are not wracked by this instability are also very significant. So how do you make these structural changes, both on the economic front and the political front, while you're dealing with some of these insidious threats that some individuals who purport to want-who demonstrate or protest purportedly in the name democracy, are not really interested in a flourishing democracy, they're interested in bringing down one authoritarian regime in order to maybe put up another one?

So I think the Middle East is wracked by a number of problems right now that I think it's going to be front and center for this United States government and the next administration for many years to come.

WOODRUFF: Yes, in the back. This woman right here. Yeah. Hand up. Thank you.

Q: Kim Dozier with the Council.

Sir, you mentioned in recent testimony that ISIS/Daesh/ISIL, would have to lose a lot more money, materiel and manpower before we'd really see them, quote/unquote, "on the back foot." Is it also possibly time to retire phrases like "on the back foot" or "in retreat," because all of these different groups over the past 15 years have seemed to just changed names, but the ideology just switches to a new group?

BRENNAN: Terrorism has been with us for millennia. It has been used by groups over the years for all sorts of political and ideological purposes. The sad fact is that carrying out these acts of terrorism can be very-relatively inexpensive. They can be relatively easy to fabricate, put together, and then to carry out. And when you have, though, a motivational engine like ISIL/Daesh that is able to encourage as well as to participate in this, it makes the situation and the potential even that much greater and more serious.

So when I commented in recent testimony that we have made progress on the battlefield and we're still, though, a ways from being able to say that we're able to successfully thwart this ISIL growth, what I'm saying is that it really has been generated now by what has happened, the phenomenon within the Syria-Iraq theater. It has a trajectory and a momentum that is carrying it forward.

We need to have efforts that are designed to go upstream, where the external plotters are, inside of Syria and Iraq. We need to be attacking the networks in terms of the flows of individuals, as well as flows of the narrative and the poison that goes out, as well as working downstream to stop the attacks, whether it be in Istanbul, Paris, Belgium, Orlando, or whatever.

So it needs to be a collective effort and a combined effort to attack all these different areas. But right now I am still very concerned that the ISIL-generated engine of foreign terrorism outside of Syria and Iraq still has a lot of momentum that we cannot rest at all. We have to increase our efforts.

I was struck, after I gave that testimony, how a lot of members of the esteemed media were trying to highlight how I-my comments differed from the White House's comments. I must tell you, I'm hard-pressed to think about where President Obama and I differ on this issue in terms of what we've been able to accomplish inside of Syria and Iraq, but at the same time our concern about the lethality that ISIL can bring to all of our communities, either because their hand can reach that far, they've taken advantage of the openness of our societies, or because they're doing it via the internet. So I think we share a very similar view on the status of ISIL's fortunes, both inside the theater as well as what they can do in terms of external operations.

WOODRUFF: OK, in the very back, the hand up. Thank you. Yes, you.

Q: Thank you. Ken Dilanian with NBC News.

Mr. Brennan, you said in an interview yesterday that you'd be very surprised if ISIS wasn't plotting an Istanbul-style attack in the United States. Do you have credible evidence that such an attack is in the works? And has the chances of such an attack gone up in recent months or weeks?

BRENNAN: What I was saying was that we've seen ISIL carry out and incite an array of terrorist attacks in the region, beyond the region, directly, indirectly, and that I would be surprised that ISIL is not considering carrying out these attacks in the near abroad as well as the far abroad. And the United States, as we well know, is leading the coalition to try to destroy as much of this poison inside of Syria and Iraq as possible.

So it would be surprising to me that ISIL is not trying to hit us, both in the region as well as in our homeland. And I think what you see in the propagation of their material-they have a magazine, Dabiq, that goes out-that says exactly that. It exhorts individuals to do it.

So if anybody here believes that, you know, the U.S. homeland is hermetically sealed and that Daesh or ISIL would not consider that, I think-I would guard against that.

WOODRUFF: Do you think we are more hermetically sealed or more sealed than we were after 9/11 or less?

BRENNAN: Absolutely. As I said, I think we have gone to great lengths. And we have briefed our foreign partners about how we learned some painful lessons as a result of 9/11. And so the intelligence, law enforcement, homeland security, other communities, are working together today better than ever before.

There is a tremendous volume of information and data that is out there, some of it accurate, some of it bogus. And trying to make sense of it all and put the different puzzle pieces together is challenging. So we're-I think we're less vulnerable to the penetration, but-physical, because of the actions we've taken-but as we've seen with the, as you mentioned, the Internet, as well as ISIL's taking advantage of technologies that allow them to communicate in a very secure fashion, is certainly worrisome.

WOODRUFF: OK, right here in the second row. Yes.

Q: Jim Mann, author. I'm at Johns Hopkins SAIS.

In your list of challenges, you didn't mention China, although there are several areas, like cyber, for example, where it might seem to fit in one way or another. Where does it fit into your list of challenges?