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WOODRUFF: And do you see any progress on that front?

BRENNAN: I have had numerous interactions with my Russian counterparts. I visited Moscow and talked with them. I feel as though they can do more. They probably feel that we can do more. But they, I don't believe, have lived up to the commitments as far as honoring the cessation of hostilities and getting the trajectory of the Syrian conflict on a better course, particularly on the-on the political transition front.

WOODRUFF: So how do you-how do you turn that around? How do you change that?

BRENNAN: The dogged determination of our diplomats, led by, you know, the indefatigable John Kerry, who continues to work with Foreign Minister Lavrov and others. We have interaction with our counterparts on the Russian intelligence side to try to have a common appreciation of what the situation is inside of Syria. I have no doubt that the Russians are motivated in part in terms of their investment in Syria out of concern about the growth of ISIS and terrorist forces there. Whether it'd be ISIS or Jabhat al-Nusra, which is al-Qaida in Syria, they are determined to I think try to crush those forces. At the same time, though, I think that they recognize that these forces have grown because of the problems that have existed in Syria, in the Syrian government.

WOODRUFF: I have a last question, and then we're going to open it up to the-to the audience. I was struck-I guess I shouldn't have been-that you said the greatest nuclear proliferation threat still comes from North Korea. Is there any progress in terms of intelligence, information, communication with the North? Is it still chiefly through China? I mean, how-help us understand where that is.

BRENNAN: That is another one of the more frustrating aspects of our international agenda, that you have someone like Kim Jung Un who continues to pursue these nuclear and ballistic missile capabilities almost irrespective of what his people need. I do not believe that he yet has come to realize that the international community is going to remain united against the nuclearization of the Korean Peninsula and that we're not going to accept North Korea as a nuclear state, which is what he is demanding.

And so therefore, I think the international community wants to be able to bring North Korea out of its international isolation and to help the North Korean people. But there needs to be a better appreciation on the part of Kim Jung Un that his continued pursuit of these military capabilities, nuclear capabilities, is only going to undermine his long-term prospects.

WOODRUFF: But you don't sense that message is getting through in any way?

BRENNAN: He seems to be exceptionally stubborn and not a very good listener. (Laughter.)

WOODRUFF: With that, I now want to invite all of you to ask questions. I am told that this meeting is on the record. I think we already knew that. We are-we have microphones. We're going to bring them to you. So raise your hand, then stand up. We're asking you to tell us who you are, give us your affiliation. And we ask you to keep it to one question so we can get to as many of you as possible. So who has a first question? Why don't we start right here on the third row. Yes. Gentleman in the middle.

Q: David Goldwyn, Atlantic Council.

I wonder if you'd comment on the Iranian-Saudi rivalry and particularly how Mohammed bin Salman's plans might help or hurt that relationship.

BRENNAN: Well, as you know, it's a longstanding rivalry that predates Mohammed Salman, the current leadership as well as the current governments in both countries, this rivalry, unfortunately, between Persian and Arab, Shia and Sunni. Unfortunately, it has undermined I think some of the efforts in the past to try to bridge that gap.

Unfortunately, the continued problems that exist inside of Iraq and Syria do not help to facilitate even a productive dialogue between Tehran and Riyadh. And there are sharply differences of view about what the future of Syria and Iraq should look like.

So I-it's important for two very large, important, and influential countries in the Gulf region to be able to find some type of modus vivendi. And we are hoping that some of the more rational actors inside of Iran are going to recognize that there needs to be some type of accommodation with the Saudi leadership and the Saudi government. And in my engagements with the Saudis-and I do have a liaison engagement-relationship with Saudi Arabia-they are interested in pursuing that if they feel as though the Iranian leadership is genuinely interested in pursuing something that-other than antagonistic relationship.

WOODRUFF: Is that something the U.S. is trying to persuade them of?

BRENNAN: I think one of the real motivating factors behind the JCPOA was, in addition to stopping Iran's pursuit of a nuclear weapons program, was to tamp down the tensions that were rising as a result of that program in the Gulf with the ultimate aim of having the Gulf states, the ones that are in that region, find a better way to communicate with one another, first of all, and then secondly, to see whether or not there can be some repairing of those relations.

And in the past, there have been times when Saudi Arabia and Iran, under different leaders, were able to work together. There are areas where I think there is quite a bit of interaction. The Iranians have decided not to send pilgrims to Mecca this year because of security concerns there and because of this antagonism that continues to exist. So we are-we are encouraging this type of tamping down of tensions and dialogue. You're only going to improve relations if you have dialogue.

WOODRUFF: OK. Far against the wall over here. Yes.

Q: Hi. John Sullivan with George Mason University.

There have been a number of excellent articles recently in Council publications and others talking about the erosion of the democratic trend around the world and the revival of the authoritarian or autocratic tendencies. That wasn't one of the factors that you listed, but I wonder, in your major overarching concerns, to what degree do you worry about this fracturing of democracy and increase in authoritarian-of authoritarian revival?